Welcome to this special summer series of the Campfire Circle podcast where we’re bringing back mini-moments from past episodes that are just as relevant today – if not more so. 

This episode is from a longer conversation with Dr. Devona Stalnaker-Shofner, a professor and mental health counselor, about using narrative therapy to dismantle imposter syndrome. In this clip, we are diving into how we can nurture future social change agents and ground ourselves in our “why.” 

Finally, we talk about a new form of leadership that’s rooted in purpose and values instead of power and control.

This episode is over two years old, so there’s some mention of dated news stories. What Devona shares, however, is timeless.

To listen to the full episode, visit: LUMOS MARKETING

Devona

Counseling for me feels as natural as breathing. It feels like an extension of who I am as a person. I am empathic. I am compassionate, caring, nurturing, and supportive. All of those things are necessary skills and counseling, so it felt organic to me. I considered psychiatry because I was a double major in psychology and biology. Then I realized I wanted to be in the trenches working with people and helping them through their difficult and dark moments and come out on the other side because I did it. I wanted to be able to help other people to do the same thing.

Tania

That’s amazing. I think the most successful counselors and/or entrepreneurs have that lived experience and have gone through the journey and made it to the other side, because they have the wisdom from the experience. They have everything to pass on to the people they’re helping. What a great sign that you were able to finally be your most authentic self. I think that’s a huge sign that we’re in the right role at the right time. 

Devona

I was kind of worried about this counseling thing, because I remember in my master’s program, in my very first class, my professor said, “If you’re here to make money, you can leave now, because this is not a profession where you’re going to get rich.” I thought, there are other ways to be fulfilled and to be enriched. I remember my mom saying, do what you love and the money will come. So far, I’m living okay. I’m comfortable.

Tania

I bet your heart is fulfilled every single day when you wake up, which is amazing. 

Devona

Every day, I know that I’m living my purpose. How many people can say they’ve found what their life’s work is and they’re living that purpose?

The Inner Work of Social Impact: Nurturing a Solid Foundation for the Next Generation of Social Change Agents

Tania 

Outside of your three roles as counselor, clinical supervisor, and professor, you’re also a speaker. In all of these roles, I think you have a unique opportunity to nurture people who have lived experience in mental health, systemic racism, and all the intersectional -isms. As someone who is actively doing something to fix a problem that they went through, you have an opportunity to nurture others into being change makers. That’s a beautiful thing, because the next cohort of human beings are able to hopefully have a different experience. They might have more services and care available, or they don’t have to go through the same experience. How do you best nurture future social change agents?

Devona 

Oh, that’s a great question. One of the things I would probably focus on is helping them develop a level of social consciousness. Part of that is helping them think about their work and what they have done. Before you can give to the community, you have to do your own work. I deeply believe in being an actualized person and fulfilling the things you need to do in order to help someone on their journey. I would encourage anyone to do their work around social justice and activism and advocacy. What does that look like for them? It could be going to different lectures, listening to podcasts, reading books, or attending workshops and seminars. It’s very open-ended. The point is, you’re searching for knowledge, awareness, and purpose. 

Answering the 5 W’s of Becoming a Social Change Agent

Another thing I tell my students is, think about the five W’s: 

Who am I wanting to become as an advocate? What is your purpose, what is leading you to do this work? When will you begin the work? Give yourself a timeframe. Reflect on your growth and determine how that will be channeled into activism and advocacy. Where do you need to start? Do you need to start with yourself? Do you need to start with your clients? Do you need to start with your family? Do you need to start in your community? Where does the work need to happen?  Lastly and most importantly, why is this work important to you?

I have met people who haven’t figured out why they are the person they are or who they want to be or how to live their truth and live authentically. I think that’s one of the most challenging aspects of being human. If you can answer that question, that will help guide you as you start to do the work for other people through advocacy and activism. 

Sustainable Work in Social Justice: Leaning on Your Identity as a Social Change Agent

Tania

Something that came up for me is this quote from bell hooks, and I’m paraphrasing, but it’s something like, the most important type of activism is our mental health. If you feel like you can’t change anything about your reality, how are you going to change the world? The part of the quote I love the most is, if you’re fucked up and leading the revolution, you’re going to have a pretty fucked up revolution. 

Devona

Who could say it more eloquently than bell hooks? That’s perfect because it really is like the blind leading the blind. If you have no sense of purpose or direction or focus, then you have no meaningful contribution. That’s why you have to do your work in order to tap into the things that are essential. You do the work to keep yourself focused and grounded. This work is hard. There are lots of disappointments, frustrations, and setbacks. Just recently there was the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict and that was a setback. A week later, there were guilty verdicts in the death of Ahmaud Arbery. When you have setbacks, remember your purpose and focus and that the mission is bigger than just one moment in time. 

Social Impact Leadership: Creating the Next Generation of Social Change Agents Through Community-Based Leadership

Tania

I love that you talked about the importance of deciding who you want to become. If we are focused on the goal but we haven’t become who we need to be to affect those changes, we’re going to be disappointed. You’re talking about students and the folks you work with, but there are also people in leadership who haven’t done this work. We gloss over the big strategic questions because the day-to-day gets in the way, but this is foundational for activating a movement. 

Devona

Exactly. When I think about people in leadership, I think about the importance of servant leadership and the people who look up to you. You should work with them in a collaborative way where you’re not exercising dominion over anyone, but working in concert and creating the reality you want to see in your organization. I think that’s something people miss the mark on because they’re so busy focused on being in charge that they do not lead the charge.

Tania

I think we have grown up seeing models of that hierarchical leadership. We think that’s just what a leader is. We think of the leader who slaps their fist on the boardroom table and is larger than life, but to me, I think the strongest, most effective leaders are the community-based folks who are in the right relation with everyone around them. As a result, they create a ripple effect that affects a movement.

Devona

Exactly. I think part of the antiquated mentality around leadership comes from the system and culture of white supremacy and patriarchy. These are the things that are important within that system, that you have power and control, and that you exercise it in a full-throated, unapologetic way. That’s where I want people to begin to understand that it is not a successful or sustainable model of leadership. You have to work in concert with the people who are under your charge to accomplish the mission of the organization, in your workplace, and wherever you have an opportunity to lead and serve.

Related Podcasts

Be a Change Agent – from the We Are For Good Podcast

How to deepen your influence to drive change

Driving Global Change through Inner Work with Aila Malik

Connect with Devona Stalnaker-Shofner: 

Antioch University: Devona Stalnaker-Shofner

LinkedIn: Devona Stalnaker-Shofner 

Email: dstalnakershofner@antioch.edu

Connect with Tania Bhattacharyya:

LinkedIn: Tania Bhattacharyya